In this episode of UEN Homeroom, hosts Matt and Dani are joined by Principal Robert McDaniel and Assistant Principal Aaron Bodell from Cyrpus High School. They share insight into how they’ve approached creating a positive school environment at Cyprus High School and how it’s helped their students and teachers succeed.
In this episode of UEN Homeroom, hosts Matt and Dani are joined by Principal Robert McDaniel and Assistant Principal Aaron Bodell from Cyrpus High School. They share insight into how they’ve approached creating a positive school environment at Cyprus High School and how it’s helped their students and teachers succeed.
Book mentioned:
[MUSIC PLAYING] Hi, Dani.
Hey, Matt. How's it going?
I'm doing so well. And it's mostly thanks to you.
Thanks to me? What did I do?
Well, when we were planning out this podcast season, you said, "I think I have the perfect administrator that we need to have on the episode." And I was a little skeptical, but you sold me.
Well, I'm glad I did because, once again, I was right. And this crew from Cyprus High School should be the go-to crew when we're talking about culture at a school.
100%. We've got professional wrestlers. We've got comedians. We've got assembly pants.
Assembly pants?
And the story about replacing an office with a farmyard, including a goat.
How can this be wrong?
Exactly.
This is the episode that you need to hear about things you can do to make your school maybe a little bit more enjoyable than it already is.
All right, let's jump in with them.
Let's go.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Utah Coalition for Educational Technology wants you to work together with them this year by presenting at their annual conference on March 14 and 15 in Provo, Utah. Join Utah educators, national speakers and groups, and local organizations for UCET '23 by presenting your ideas from your classroom. Share classroom practice in a lecture, form a panel on a hot educational topic, or sign up for the main stage for a 10-to-15-minute Utah Ed Chat. Look for the call for presenters in our show notes or head ucet.org for links. Proposals close on October 14.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Dani, I'm so excited about our guest today.
You know, I met these two about a month ago. And I have been excited to have them on the podcast ever since.
Yeah, so am I, because you keep bringing up their pants?
Yes, their party pants.
Their party pants or--
Assembly pants.
--assembly pants.
Yeah, assembly plants, yeah.
So let's jump right into it. We've got two of the Cyprus high school administrators. So we're just going to let you guys introduce yourselves real quick.
So I'm Rob McDaniel. I am the principal of Cyprus High School. I've been here for eight and a half years. And I actually intentionally came back here because I'm a graduate of Cyprus High School, as is my mother. She went to Cyprus. And my oldest daughter graduated from Cyprus.
And they let you back in the building?
They did. Strangely enough, I actually did spend more than my share of time in the administrative offices back as a student. So--
Just made yourself comfortable and needed to come back.
I just came back because I wanted to be on the other side of the desk.
I love it.
It's perfect. I'm Aaron Bodell. I'm an assistant principal here. And this is actually my second tour at Cyprus High School. I started teaching here in 2009, taught for about eight years and then left for a few years and came back as an administrator.
I thought I got rid of him, but he just keeps showing up. So he's back.
Speaking of keeping showing up, we've heard-- Dani's told me a lot about you guys. She's pumped us up, this interview up quite a bit. And one of the things she keeps telling me is that you both have very interesting educational stories as to how you came to be the administrators here at Cyprus High School. So I'd love to hear a little bit more about what has been your history of your educational life and how you got to this point.
My educational story is interesting because I wasn't trained to be a teacher. I trained to be a chemist and a printer and did all kinds of things like that, had a whole career before I got into education. And I was kind of minding my own business, working kind of a dead-end, low-paying job, had a family, didn't know what I was doing.
And I got a phone call. And the person on the other end asked if I might be interested in teaching. Well, shoot, yeah, let's do it. I don't know. I don't know.
I mean, my dad was an educator. So, I mean, I had an idea. But I don't know, high school? I don't know.
So I interviewed. I got hired over the phone because this is like four to six weeks into the school year. And apparently the administration at the time was desperate to get somebody in the classroom. So I got hired over the phone.
And my first day at Cyprus High School was my first day on the job. I'd never seen the classroom. I'd never seen, well, any of it. So I just kind of dove in head first. And it's been excellent ever since.
So I was a poor Cyprus kid from this community. And I was going to be a stand-up comedian. So I went on a theater scholarship to Southern Utah. And I was all ready to go and got a little scared with the whole process. So I decided to do the only continual daily job a stand up comedian can have. And that's become a teacher.
So I taught at Kearns High School. I became a debate coach and actually won three state championships for debate at Kearns High School. And that was a lot of fun.
So I jumped into administration. And I was one of those quick climbers. And I became an assistant superintendent in Murray. And it didn't take me that long to get to that point.
And then I sat in state office meetings. And I would hear people say, man, if I could go back and do it over again, I would do this. And after eight and a half years in the district office, I thought, I have enough years. That's what I'm going to do.
And then Cyprus opened. And so I came back to the school where I was from and decided I wanted to try to make a difference here. So that's how I ended up back here. And I gave up that climbing the ladder to do something that I enjoy. And that's working with kids and working with teachers.
I love that so much because I think you both have this outside experience that you bring into the classroom. So when we met we were at a leadership summit. And there were a lot of other principals there. But the two of you just radiate this positive energy. I just wanted to be around you all and hear your story.
And so I want to know about school culture. And what does school culture mean to you? And why is it important to have a positive school culture in a high school?
I'd like to start by addressing that with my first experience as an educator. I came into a classroom that had had some-- I think some negativity. There were some problems. And so I knew right out of the gate that I had to do something a little different. And I think my personality matched up with what I needed to do differently.
So from the time that I came into the classroom, it was all about making sure that kids were having fun and learning. And the required combination of that, I think, made the kids want to be there. And we learned all kinds of things.
So I think that sometimes people get confused between culture and climate, right? Culture, the behaviors, they're the systems, they're the things that you really establish, this is what we do in our school, whether it's professional learning communities, whether it's about relationships with kids. So the other things that we do that may be fun with it, they hopefully support that.
Climate are about feelings. So I might have some negative feelings, for example, in a high school that I don't like working in teams. I like to work independently. But the culture is really about establishing even if that's not what you want to do, that's what's best for kids. So you do it and you hopefully do it well.
So as you talk about some of the things that we try to do to hopefully create some fun is to establish something to where people are more on the side of I like what I'm doing, because research shows that you remember things most if emotion is attached. And if the emotion is I hate you or I'm going to cry, then eventually they just hate you and they're going to get out of the profession, right? If instead it's on the other side, we laugh a little bit, we have a little bit of fun, then I'm more likely to build off of that and to put that into my classroom and to make it an environment where kids want to be and adults want to work.
You're speaking my language right there. One of my favorite educationalists is Ken Robinson. And he says, "It's not about command and control in schools. It's climate control," and that idea that we're trying to adjust what we do to make the climate happier, more inclusive, enjoyable so that teachers have more longevity. That's wonderful.
With that said, before we ever started recording today, you guys are silly guys. You just are. I'm sorry. We talked about frazzles, podcasting, and, again, assembly pants. So what role does having fun and, quote unquote, silliness have in building school culture or school climate? And how have you instilled those within your high school?
I think you have to lead by example on that front. I want to give a couple of examples. At a previous school I was at, there was a lot of shenanigans that took place. And it was between not just within the admin team that I was there with, but also across those boundaries of the admin-teacher kind of relationships.
There were a handful of us that got involved with pranking. And just one example is I walked into my office one day after a longer weekend and my entire office had been turned into a farm. I mean, imagine walking into an administrator's office and somebody had come in, laid sod, and brought in chickens and ducks and all kinds of things.
And I had no idea this was happening. So I walked in. And that's what it was. This, I believe, was in response to us turning a science teacher's desk drawer into a fish tank, a literal fish tank.
Slight escalation.
Yes, slight, right, exactly. But I think the idea of being able to play-- but we had rules. You couldn't do something that prevented you from getting your work done. Right, I mean, we had to make sure--
And the chickens and stuff didn't do that?
Well, this was a bit of a spectacle. You're right. This one probably crossed the line. But it was after school had let out. It was summertime. Or it was the last day of school, something like that. But anyway, the point is that teacher got students involved and other faculty and had a really good time. And it was memorable.
So I think there's a fine balance, right, because on one hand, there are going to be people who listen to this and they're going to say, well, we believe the educators should be professional. And that's not professional. So how do you make play professional and make it part of the culture of what you do? So it's not just goofing around, it's goofing around in ways that facilitate where you're still going as a school, right?
So if you have strong expectations in place, if you have a culture where we know relationships matter most and we know that we're really moving forward on behalf of students, then you're more likely to be able to do some things that are a little fun or silly. For example, we started during COVID, I started Masked Singer Cyprus, which was strictly a teacher thing, because teachers felt isolated. They were working in their rooms. They weren't interacting.
So let's take something that they can do and hide who they are and participate as a masked singer. And we had over 20 teachers who were part of a competition that year to be the winner of Masked Singer. We did it again last year.
This time we changed it to where the top two acts performed in our student talent assembly. And it was the biggest hit of the year for students, so to see four Teletubbies going against someone who went by V who was a really, really good singer-- by the way, the Teletubbies were not really good singers. But it was a big, it was a big spectacle.
And it was fun. And it was fun because we don't walk around doing that all the time, right? Research also shows that the brain likes novelty. And the brain likes routine. So if we're doing that every day, where we're doing something completely different and out of control, then that can become chaos.
So are we planning things to where we draw people in to engage them, right? So even at professional development coming up for this school year, we don't do breaks. We're doing play breaks. And we have things set up that people can do in between to play.
And so there are just a lot of things you can do that you can build in. But you have to have some, I don't know, some money in your bank account to be able to withdraw that at the appropriate time. So the more you put in and invest in people, the more you can be who you want to be, right? The more you laugh and love your job, the more you're going to want to stay with that job.
Well, I think just meeting you guys over the last half hour, hour, I think for both of you, and it seems like the larger school, it would be kind of disingenuous if you guys were those straight, serious administrators. And so it's nice to see your personalities in a professional way integrating into the school community that creates those positive experiences both for your teachers and your teacher retention, but also for your students and your student retention. That's incredible.
Yeah, I would add this. I think that we all go through phases. And I think sometimes we become that more serious person. And we have to reflect and reevaluate. And that's where things like the Leading Schools Conference is really beneficial, because you actually take time to reflect and to look at some of these practices. And you try to get out of some ruts that sometimes we get in.
The funniest people in the world go through ruts. And it goes both ways. And some of the people who are always serious sometimes are the funniest people you'll ever find. So how do you strategically figure out how do we make this work within the context of where I work?
I love that. And I love that you talked about pairing the novelty with the routine, pairing the silliness with the high expectations of everyone. A lot of times, some of the best teachers that we have are the educators that want to step outside of the box and do the crazy things that principals are immediately going to say no to or we think that they're going to say no to. I'm wondering, how do you encourage those kind of changemaker educators to excel here at Cyprus High?
So I'll start with that. We have teachers who will do creative things. We have a teacher who every so often just shows up as Waldo.
Like Where's Waldo?
Where's Waldo, and he's dressed exactly like that. In fact, that's his picture in the yearbook. And kids respond. I'm not even sure if he's doing it on a test day or when he's doing it, but he's not doing it every day. He's strategic at when he's doing it.
He actually dressed that way at graduation two years ago. He's sitting in the stands in Rio Tinto as Waldo and with all the rest of the staff. And so people could try to find Waldo if they were sitting in the stands.
So one of the things we really try to do is to delegate and empower people to step up as leaders. And so our PLCs, for example, teachers have a lot of freedom as to how that PLC looks, right, their expectations about what they need to accomplish. But different PLCs have different personalities.
And the ones that do things with food, great. If they do things with a little bit of humor, great. We just want to get that end goal of helping students. But use your personality and the things that draw students to you in your process.
I think we also try to encourage that creative kind of thinking. And it helps that in our, both mine and Rob's education, when we were in the classroom we were already doing things that were a little outside the box. And being able to share those examples with other teachers to help them understand what's-- so yeah, principals are going to say no, no, no, you can't do that, or it costs too much or this, that, or the other thing. How do you get through that to the creative process? Those are critical conversations that we have.
Yeah, let me also add this. One of the things I tell teachers whenever they come and say, hey, can I do this, can I get this-- I had a teacher say, can I get a bunch of LEGOs? I'm a big LEGO nerd, by the way. Can I get a bunch of LEGO to use in my class?
I will never say no to a teacher in purchasing technology or other things that I know that they're going to use for students, to engage students, to make more collaboration in their room, and to spice up that classroom. So I just won't say no to those things. I will find the funding for it. You just have to articulate that you're going to use it in a really, really good way to help kids.
So one of the examples that I give to teachers is so I taught printing and graphics. And one of the things we thought, my students and I thought, was, well, if we're going to engage people in a-- we had a task. We needed to do a parent meeting. And what's a better way to get people to gather than by having some food?
Well, we thought, well, let's print taco shells. Let's print our logo on taco shells. Well, we don't have edible ink or anything. So what can we do? I mean, students addresses the problem. We figured out we could etch the logo using a laser engraver, like cook the logo onto the taco shells.
And people will remember that for ages. And we probably had 200 taco shells or something like that for a parent night and that had our logo on it. And those kids will remember that.
And when I go to talk to other teachers about how do you get creative, let me share an example. We printed taco shells. Or we printed toilet paper or whatever it is that we printed that was just like, why did you do that? It doesn't really matter why. The fact was that we were engaging in and it's memorable.
Yeah, one of the books I encourage teachers to read isn't an educational book. It's called The Power of Moments. It's by Chip and someone Heath. And it's really about creating those moments that people remember.
Why shouldn't your classroom have a moment that's as memorable as prom? Why do kids only remember the things that happen outside of school hours? So do something that really, really stands out in your class that they're going to remember equally.
What about the opposite? What about teachers who are having a hard time connecting with their students? And maybe they don't come from an educational background, kind of like you, Aaron. You, obviously, you were printing on taco shells. But how do you help the teachers who are having a harder time with that sort of thing?
I think there's a lot of encouragement to watch other teachers that are good so that they can see that it can be done. Also I think there's a lot to do with confidence. And if a teacher can find that confidence inside themselves or you can show it to them, then they can begin to do these other things that are more engaging. And kids feed off of that confidence.
I think there's two things. One is we have four coaches. And I think that the more you can access someone who can work on those specific things, and that's one of them, right? Building relationships is a critical component in education. So I think that's clearly one of the things that we try to do. The second one I just forgot. So--
Well, I'll bring it back with a question, then. I love this conversation about innovation, creating moments. I love that book, by the way. That's one of the ones that I used in my classroom as well.
But when we talk about innovation and working with teachers and helping those teachers to realize their goals as an educator with relationships and things like that, there also comes the side of we've got to manage expectations. So how have you helped to support teachers to manage their expectations for their innovation, their growth, and to help support them when maybe that innovation doesn't go the way that they want to?
Well, I think you have to learn how to prioritize, right? What's the foundational piece that's going to enable things? So don't jump in and be that teacher that dresses like Waldo when you don't have basic classroom management down.
Let's find the skills that are going to enable you to open up later. And really strengthen those. Don't bite off too much at one time, right? So let's build piece by piece and get you to the point where you have that capacity.
I think our jobs are to build capacity, right, of teachers, of all staff members. And so the more you look at it from that perspective, you might have a neighbor who's up to a really high level. You don't need to be there right now. Let's just get you to the next level.
Yeah, try one thing. See if it works. If it doesn't, adjust and until you get solid on it.
Yeah, we're really big on experimenting, right? If you experiment, then the great thing about that is you can get rid of what doesn't work and then you can build off what does. So think of everything you do in your classroom as a great experiment and then adjust accordingly.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Hi there. I'm Will from Olympus High School. How is being a high school principal like being a professional wrestler?
Well, that's a great question, because I'm a diehard wrestling fan. And when you say a background, clearly by this physique I don't have a background as a wrestler in a ring. But I have a background as a super fan. And one time I got an experience to be a manager at an Indy show for a tag team. But I think that there actually are some things that are really comparable to being an administrator and a wrestler.
First of all, in wrestling you have two main characters. You have the face and the heel. The face is the good guy and the heel is the bad guy.
The administrator has to actually play both roles. They have to be the face and the heel. It just depends on the situation.
So sometimes I'm the face. I'm advocating for my teachers. But on other times I come across as the heel because I'm talking about a district mandate and we're going to have to do this. So you have that balance of trying to figure out how to do that with each stakeholder, right? Even with kids, we're advocates for kids. But sometimes we're the heel because we have to suspend a kid or we have to follow through with other consequences.
The other thing I love most about professional wrestling is when I watch wrestling a lot of times I don't watch what's in the ring as much as the promos that they do. So I think administrators are good promo makers, right? You are that voice.
And so whether it's at an assembly or it's in a faculty meeting or it's on a parent night, you need to have a good, strong voice and give a great promo. And that's what the best wrestlers do. I grew up loving the wrestlers who are just the best speakers. So that's where I think there's a lot of similarity.
Aaron, you don't have--
No, I'm not going to embarrass myself with the extent of my knowledge of pro wrestling. It's not very much. Rob's clearly the expert here.
Just following his lead on this.
We should just have a podcast on wrestling. I could go on all day and talk from stuff all the way from about 50 years ago to today. So, in fact, I'm going to an indie show this weekend, indie meaning independent. It's a local it's a local show that they do once a month here in Salt Lake. So I'm excited for that.
I'm front row and I'm always the most vocal. And I wear a chicken hat when I go. That chicken hat, by the way, has been in matches. Wrestlers have wanted to take that in. So it was used as a gimmick in a match where the other wrestler was afraid of chickens. And so he got a hold of it to scare the other wrestler. It was great. As you can tell, wrestling's real. So--
Absolutely, only truth here on the UEN Homeroom Podcast. Wrestling--
Wrestling is real.
100% real.
You heard it here.
No question.
All right, I'm going to go back to something you said about the LEGOs and getting teachers whatever they need. How have you encouraged your school community, and that includes not just teachers and students, but also parents and other community members, to embrace edtech? We had that big shift where everything was online. And hopefully this year feels more back to normal. But what are some steps that you've taken to ensure the positive use of tech within Cyprus High?
I think there's a lot of things that we do here at Cyprus about using technology in a positive way. One is always encouraging it, right? It's the language that our kids are speaking these days. They're using technology all the time. So the hard part about that is balancing proper use of the technology with, I don't know, wasting time on it.
And so I think part of our main goal is to teach not only our content, but I guess it would be called digital citizenship, right? How do you make productive use of the technology that we're providing or that we're expecting you to use?
Yeah, it's like when you're a kid and you get a birthday cake and you used to eat that whole cake. And you may get a stomachache. And so as you grow, you kind of learn, I don't need that much cake, even though it tastes absolutely delicious.
I think prior to COVID it was hit and miss with teachers. There were some really good with technology and others who avoided technology. So we had this huge infusion of technology and pushed that cake down everyone's throat. And then it became too much, right?
And I think last year we were still kind of in that phase of we're still giving too much of that to our kids. We're using it as a crutch. So I think the trick is, how do you pull that back, as Aaron mentioned, to an amount that works well for what your content is and does not take away from the more important aspect?
I mean, edtech is a tool to support what a teacher's doing, right? It should be supported with the relationship. It should be supported with strong engagement strategies, the proximity, the feedback, the checks for understanding, and not an isolated, independent practice way to use it.
And I think we got a little bit too far that way as a whole probably nationally. And so I think the conversation is a tricky one of saying, hey, we made you do this. We made you eat this cake. Now stop eating it. Or let's eat a little bit less of it.
And so that's where we're going to be having that conversation this year. And I think every school is going to have to do that a little piece at a time.
I want to add a little bit to that as well. I think we're at a critical time in public education, where we're going to shift. For so long and for so many years, we've asked students to report their learning and their findings through an essay that's 12-point Times New Roman double spaced and x number of words or x number of pages, whatever the response is.
I think that we are at a point where we have to start adopting new ways to report and tell stories about what we've learned and what we know, including-- I think there will always be a place for the essay, for sure. But I think that we need to embrace new medium, new mediums for reporting what we've learned, like videos and posters or different things like that.
Podcasts?
Podcasts, yes. Solid, yes.
Because there won't always be a need for a multiple-choice test. That may be an occasional thing, but that's been the go-to for how many decades, right?
Well, and a multiple-choice test doesn't actually measure everything that the students are learning and what they can do as a student as well.
Yeah, absolutely.
We want to do some rapid fire here, because again, going back, you've got some interesting background at your school. You've got some silliness going on. So Dani and I were really interested in how would you make different parts of the school day, quote unquote, fun?
So we have six different things. We just want to rapid fire these at you. How have you or how would you make these parts of school fun? So the first one is, how would you make or how have you made faculty meetings fun in your school?
So we can both give one answer. But I'll tell you, one of the things that I believe in is that we're continuing in our own personal and professional growth, right? This is my 30th year. I learned some things at the Leading Schools Conference that I'm going to implement this year that I wish I had learned 30 years ago. And I encourage people to consider that particular conference in the future, because it really was-- it felt like, look, here's something in the summer that I'm going to have to do, I'm putting this time for. Do I really have the time to do that?
But it really brought to the forefront some things that I need to do better. So one thing that we're going to do this year are the cool things in school, which was talked about in that conference. So we're going to highlight really, really cool things that people are doing. And maybe you can mention what we're going to do in terms of the social media.
Yeah, so we'll be doing all kinds of social media posts. We're having teachers allowed to-- teachers will be allowing students to get their phones out for a one-minute posting when they-- this is not necessarily faculty meetings, but in a classroom if something's really cool and noteworthy. Hey, get your phones out and post this. You've got 60 seconds to get your post out there to whoever's following you. And then put your phones back away.
But we can take that same concept and put it into faculty meeting as well. So when we do something in there that stands out, have teachers get their phones out and post it so other teachers will see it or family or friends to just spread that this is what's going on at Cyprus. This is what's going on for us.
I love that. I know this is supposed to be rapid fire, but that's a tool that I've used with my grad students in the past, is having them post something that they learned on social media with a certain hashtag. And not only is it great to spread the good word of what's happening in public education, but it's also a tool for reflection, because if I'm taking a moment to say something I've learned or something cool in class, I'm going to remember that even more than if I hadn't. So I think that's awesome.
All right, next one, trying to be rapid here, passing time. How do you make it fun?
OK, so I put together the music. We always do one minute of music. Sometimes it'll be stuff they like. Sometimes it will be stuff that I know is going to annoy them, like some little kid music, "Old MacDonald Had a Farm," just to see if I can get them to react and they'll think about getting to class.
And having teachers engage at the door-- a lot of schools have teachers stand at the door. We want teachers to engage at the door. There's a difference, right?
Yes.
For me it's like being out in the hall with the students during the passing time. For me it's the heel click. I mean, walking in a random heel click to the right, couple of steps, a random heel click to the left, and people look like what just happened? I'm not really sure. Anyways, just keep it--
We may need to see that later.
OK.
OK.
Deal.
[INAUDIBLE] [LAUGHS] What about lunch?
He's like, what about lunch?
What about lunch? I like to eat.
Isn't lunch fun as it is?
I like to eat during lunch, for sure. I don't know.
So at a previous school, and I want to bring some of this back, and I am bringing it back this year, I would have a foosball table and other things set up. And kids could come and challenge me to play during lunch. What we're going to do here is there's going to be a list of games.
We have Jenga, ping pong, some other things. And kids can check that out during lunch. And we'll have it set up near the lunchroom. And kids can play, return it at the end of lunch. And we want to just keep things going. And as administrators, I'm going to tell you, Aaron and I are going to be the first out there to play ping pong.
For sure. I'm looking forward to it. In fact, when Rob first arrived at Cyprus High School I was teaching in my classroom. I had a ping pong table set up in the middle for when things got-- you get done with an assignment or whatever, you can go play ping pong.
Anyway, I was teaching. Rob walked up. And three different times I looked up. And the third time I looked up, he's opposite the ping pong table from me with his hands behind his back.
And I kind of looked around. I'm not sure what's about to happen here. And then his hands come out. He brought his own ping pong paddle.
I was good to go.
I knew. I knew, OK, all right, kids. We're going to stop this. I'm going to play around ping pong here with Mr. McDaniel, the new principal here. And we'll see how this goes. We paused the lesson, played the match. I learned some things about ping pong that day that I didn't know.
In all fairness, his class is project based. And he was just refreshing some stuff. And they could work on it. So I didn't distract from the ultimate goal. You're welcome.
Yeah, thank you.
I bet you learned some things about your new principal that day--
For sure.
--in addition to ping pong as well.
You are absolutely right, absolutely right.
All right, how do we make libraries fun?
Well, that's really something that we don't take a big part of, because our people who run the library are amazing. Go walk through our library and see how it's decorated. See the space they have for kids. They change themes. They have giveaways. They do a lot of fun stuff. A lot of students really like to go to our library because of that.
For sure. We've done things like there's donut days in the library. And it's just engaging with the library and rewarding and cementing that desire to be in the library.
Nice. Now one that is usually fun anyways, but how have you made sporting events-- and I'm going to change it a little bit. How have you made sporting events fun and memorable?
Well, I'll tell you, we have the best student section in the state. Our students come. They get high energy. I mean, they're loud.
It doesn't matter what our record is. We get a lot of students, especially at football and basketball. And they'll dress up. They'll do a lot of things with that.
One of the things we're going to do this year is we're going to have little QR codes. And students will come and they'll scan that they're there and there'll be a competition between grades. So it counts towards the spirit week, which isn't until February, starting on game one. So they want to track and encourage their peers to go.
We've talked about things like having a SBOs, bring a friend, someone who otherwise wouldn't go to the game that's not their friend that goes to games, so just some kid who doesn't necessarily go. We'll pay for their ticket to go in. So bring them and give them an experience there.
For sure. Giveaways are also helpful at the games. It's fun. Give away T-shirts, give away candy, give away food, all kinds of things, super fun.
OK. Not as fun naturally as sporting events, how do you make parent-teacher conferences fun?
Well, it's a little different now, because for a few years-- for a year or two we went where they had to call in. Now we're going in this district where one night they come in person and one night they don't. So number one is we're really interactive. And we go around and we talk to parents. And we're kind of seeing the room. Which people are looking frustrated?
We'll all walk around with a thing of candy for kids who have little kids-- little kids-- or parents who have little kids with them, because I know that's a miserable experience for those little kids. So let's do something for them while they're waiting. One of the things I did, again, this was at a previous school, I had a big wheel. And every parent that came got to spin it for a prize.
Kids loved it. We would give out books mostly because we wanted more literacy in the community. But there were also some gift cards, candy, and other things. But we just wanted to have a different feel to it.
So we try to also do some engaging things. In the past we've had some of our CTE programs, when they would be there they would actually have things out there that people could see and touch.
Yeah, not just touch, but experience as well. I mean, we brought out full-on screen printing machines and allow people to print their own T-shirts. Or the woodshop would have their laser engraver out and you could make your design, that kind of thing. Just--
You guys would do hot dogs or hamburgers, you and the auto shop. And so we would sometimes try to do something different to draw people.
Not to mention laser-etched tacos.
Yeah, yeah, loving that.
I think that's where that came from.
I want my logo on a taco.
Well, last question here is kind of an important one for both Dani and I. We've met a lot of first-year admin. And Dani especially works with a lot of first-year admin. So Robert, you especially already talked about this a little bit, of what you wish you would have known. And then you came back.
So for our admin that are listening out there, for teachers who are thinking about becoming an administrator, what do you wish you would have known about building a positive school culture? And what would you like them to know about building a positive school culture?
So I would say you have to think outside the box to connect, right? So it may not fit your personality, some of the things that we do, just like there are things other people do that may not fit my personality. You have to try things even if you have to fake it.
You can't be the reclusive administrator. No matter how good you are with data, no matter how good you are with the paperwork, you've got to be that face. And if you're an assistant principal, you're training to be the face of that school. So you've got to be willing to jump in with both feet and do things that sometimes make you uncomfortable.
Like at prom a year ago, I had my hair permanently dyed half gold and half blue. That was in, I think, the 1st of April. It was still those colors when we had graduation that year.
So you have to really accept that this role is also an acting role. It's not just a school role. And whatever that community's needs are, whatever those students' needs are, that staff need-- and sometimes those are different, right? You need to be able to see those things and you need to adapt to what their needs are, not expecting them to just adapt to what you want them to be.
I think you bring up a good point, Rob, with the needs. There's a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff that has to be done by the administration. And so as a very novice administrator-- I mean, I'm in my second, or this, I'm starting my third year if you count my internship. Anyway, yeah, we'll count it.
I've always held this belief that I can't take myself too seriously. And so that's why I'm able to have the kind of fun that I have. At the same time, there's a lot of stuff that has to get done. And so balancing and prioritizing and figuring out what that priority is, it takes a minute to figure that out. So allow yourself the time to understand that balance and make sure that stuff gets done and have a good time while you're doing it.
And people have different routines to make that happen, right? So I come very early because you can knock out a lot before people come here and start wanting to talk to you. But then there are moments during the day that I have to have a mental break. And I take that out on everybody.
Especially when he has a frazzle. They're going to have a mental-- they are going to have a mental break with me. So it's sometimes even doing that, it encourages other people when they've for three straight hours been just sitting there focused on a job to take a step back and say there's more to this than just what I was doing at that moment.
Now, we'll get back to it and we'll finish that job. But we've got to have those release points or it just builds up. And that's when I think people get frustrated.
And I think that's part of the reason some people aren't staying in the profession. They feel that every day is just like that. I come in. I grind through the
Day. I'm not having these positive interactions. I'm not having fun with my job. Why am I going to stick with it? And we've got to change that by infusing a little more play into the day in appropriate ways.
Absolutely. I feel like my cheeks hurt from smiling just in this short interview. And you guys, just the joy that radiates around you two and the work that you're doing, I feel like when I did my admin internship, I am not currently an administrator because it felt like everyone that I talked to was so weighed down by their responsibility. And that's not a knock on them. The last couple of years have been rough.
But I love the outlook that you guys have and the positivity. It makes me say, oh, a school could be a fun place. Like this would be a good time to--
And should be a fun place.
It should be. You're exactly right.
And I got to share that with the entire district last week because we do an admin kickoff with the entire district, all administrators. And they actually let me do a 15-minute stand-up comedy routine. So that was in front of all fo them.
Can we find this on YouTube?
I happen to have that.
Yes.
But I think even in that kind of setting to start the year, look, you go to trainings, you're going to get here's the rule. Here's the rule. Here's the policy. Here's the policy.
Are we taking the time to say, look, but we still care about you and we're going to laugh a little bit and have fun? So I appreciate our great superintendent who approved that, because that may not happen everywhere.
That's true. And you do have a good one. Dr. Nye is great.
Yeah. He's really, really good to work with.
Well, thank you so much for your time today. This has been amazing. I'm invigorated. I'm excited to get back into talking to administrators and learning more about that. And so thank you so much for your time today.
Yep, thank you.
Thank you.
Appreciate it.
Appreciate it.
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OK, Matt, now that you've met these two, what do you think?
They're two incredible gentlemen. I think about some of the stuff they talked about. There's the goofy stuff, like talking about professional wrestling or LEGO or the goat.
And one of my favorite things that wasn't part of the episode, but afterward Robert showed us his front-of-school dress code cabinet. And it's all Barbies dressed up in various costumes to show appropriate dress styles in the school. It's goofy stuff like that seems like it might be not necessary or not helpful in a school environment that make the school environment exciting and different and engaging for students.
But then on top of that, all of the cool reinforcement for teachers, the reinforcement for innovation, the reinforcement for students, so you're not just being goofy for goofy's sake or being crazy for crazy's sake. What you're doing is you're being goofy and crazy to be innovative with your teachers and your students.
Right, and while simultaneously raising expectations for everyone. And I think, too, the way that Robert is totally cool being himself allows everyone to be totally cool being themselves and trying new things, and not just students. It helps teachers as well to be willing to take some risks because you know you have that guy in your corner.
Exactly. It's nice to know that there's somebody who is personable, who cares, who is willing to show off who they really are, and then drive that home so that other people can do it. And I love that he focused on throughout the interview it's not something you can do overnight. It's layering in slowly who you are, what you do, and making it-- for the purpose of making connections and making things better in schools.
Exactly. We really hope you enjoyed listening to this interview.
Yeah. We'll see you next time.
Thanks, guys.
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